By WILLIAM LAMBRECHT Springfield correspondent for the Alton Telegraph, he is now covering his fifth session of the General Assembly. Lambrecht has written numerous magazine articles on energy and coal development. He has degrees from Illinois Wesleyan and Sangamon State universities. Director of Environmental Protection Agency Leo Eisel The new director of the controversial EPA believes the agency can put together programs that will maintain a healthy environment and a healthy business climate — including development of the state's coal reserves. He says pollution can be reversed. The question is how much will society pay to do it?

Eisel is relying, however, on his international experience in his first months as director of the Illinois Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). He believes that there are several parallels between what is going on in New Zealand, Pakistan and the Prairie State. "We have similar problems in Illinois where new technology is thrust into the agricultural and environmental systems. There's something to be learned although we live in a completely different system," Eisel said in discussing his foreign studies and work.

The 34-year-old Eisel, who most recently headed the Illinois Division of Water Resources under Democratic Gov. Dan Walker, was chosen to the hotseat post as head of the EPA by Republican Gov. James R. Thompson.

Before his Water Resources post, Eisel was staff scientist for the Environmental Defense Fund. He served for a year as a research associate in the U.S. State Department's Aid for International Development program, which included work in Pakistan. Eisel's educational background includes a Ph.D. in engineering from Harvard University, a master's degree in hydrology from the University of Canterbury in Christchurch, New Zealand, and a bachelor's degree in forestry from Colorado State University.

During his Water Resources tenure, the soft-spoken Eisel gained a reputation for his ability to bargain with legislators in highly political situations. One House member, East Alton Democrat John F. Sharp, recently called Eisel "the best director I've ever seen," after a flood control project sought by his district for 40 years was finally contracted. "He doesn't act like a dictator like some of these directors. He'll stick with you no matter what if he feels you've got a good proposal," Sharp said.

Eisel assumes a post which has always attracted controversy since the EPA was created by the General Assembly in the 1970 Environmental Protection Act to enforce regulations laid down by the Pollution Control Board (PCB). Also established was the Institute for Environmental Quality. The first EPA director, Clarence W. Klassen, was fired by Gov. Richard B. Ogilvie after only seven months on the job. Klassen and his compromising approach to the job were ousted in favor of William L. Blaser, who used what has been called "the big-stick approach" in getting the agency off the ground.

It was under Blaser when EPA's image problems — which Eisel recognizes — first began to form, and the agency received most of the blame from industry and farmers for the initial PCB rulings. The volatile nature of the EPA directorship continued when Gov. Dan Walker's first appointment to that office, Ms. Mary Lee Leahy, was rejected by the state Senate largely on political grounds. Shortly after, the Senate confirmed Richard H. Briceland as Illinois EPA director; he was a former director of technical support and special projects for the U.S. EPA. To the dismay of the environmental-minded, "the big-stick approach" gave way under Walker and Briceland to the method of enforcement termed "voluntary compliance."

Eisel enters the agency at a time when the catch-phrase for pollution control is

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'The governor is very concerned that the impact of enforcing environmental rules and regulations on the economic sector of the state be kept to as little as possible'

"balancing the interests of business and the environment." He discusses the competing interests of business leaders and environmentalists and the challenges of EPA generally in the following interview which took place on February 18, 1977.

Q. Under Gov. Ogilvie and EPA Director Blaser, the state carried out what has been called a "big-stick approach" in environmental law enforcement. Under Gov. Walker and Director Briceland, the approach switched to "voluntary compliance." Initially, how do you see your policy? Is there any fitting label?
A. I haven't been here long enough to develop any phrases like that. The progression you've described is kind of the natural thing that would occur in a new agency. Suddenly, in 1970, here were all these permits to be issued, papers to be passed and whole new programs instantly thrust on the agency.

Initially, a "big stick approach" probably was necessary in order to impress on people that the state was serious about cleaning up pollution. Under Gov. Walker an effort was made to continue effective enforcement of environmental rules, regulations and laws but with reduced reliance on litigation. I think that Gov. Thompson is very concerned that environmental standards be met in the state, that air quality, water quality and land problems be cleared up, and various goals met, but this is to be done in such a fashion that we don't create unnecessary problems or hardships on business or agriculture. But I don't detect any kind of a softening under Gov. Thompson's priorities, and I certainly don't intend to see weakening of environmental goals or standards.

Q. Do you see feasibility in the voluntary compliance method of enforcement?
A. Yes, I. think it's always far better if you can get reasonably rational people in the same room before the lawyers start passing paper around. Because when the lawyers get into the act, with all due respect to lawyers, it just slows things down. Everything has to be done in such a terribly precise manner.

Q. Would you like to see an increase in the number of enforcement cases brought by the EPA before the Pollution Control Board? Isn't there a correlation between voluntary compliance and a lower number of enforcement actions?
A. I don't really know. The objective of the agency is to seek compliance with standards, goals and regulations, not necessarily just to chalk up enforcement cases. I don't think that's a very good metric to measure performance. The metric is how many industries are in compliance, how many treatment plants are in compliance and that type of thing.

Q. Do you think the EPA now has an image problem?
A. Yes, I think we are looked at as obstructing progress, and we are unfairly given the black hat on occasion.

I see as one of my major concerns the improvement of the Illinois EPA's image. Residents of the state have got to understand that there are important reasons for environmental rules, regulations and laws and that these rules and regulations are not generated by the bureaucracy simply for preserving bureaucrats' jobs.

Q. Will the inherent business concerns of a Republican governor be reflected in your management of the agency?
A. They have not to date, and I certainly would not expect them to be. We have standards, rules and regulations that carry the force of law and are very specific. You can only go so far when you have very specific rules and regulations.

Q. When you interviewed with the governor, what are some of the things you agreed on?
A. The governor is very concerned that the impact of enforcing environmental rules and regulations on the economic sector of the state be kept to as little as possible, and these are certainly my concerns, too. We have to be concerned about displacing people from jobs and displacing businesses in this State. I think often it's not the black/ white issue of jobs versus environmental quality. We can put together programs to maintain a healthy business climate and also maintain a healthy place to live.

Q. But are those two goals not mutually exclusive? In essence, aren't you just constantly trying to achieve a balance between business concerns and a clean environment?
A. I think the term "balance" often implies to a lot of people a kind of selling out to the business community, i.e. we're going to weaken standards to keep the businessmen happy. I think there is often the "them against us," "black hats versus the white hats," this "are we going to freeze to death or burn coal?" It isn't that simple; it's not an either / or situation, but a case of whether the industries who burn coal are going to pay to install the pollution equipment so they can burn coal — or are they going to try to beat us back so they can burn coal without the pollution control equipment. So it's not a case of burning coal, but of spending the money for the pollution control equipment to keep down the sulfur dioxide and other pollutants.

Q. Would you like to be known as a vocal and independent director, or do you feel your loyalty to the governor must transcend all other considerations in your job?
A. Obviously, I work for the governor, and I certainly will support his policies and programs. I believe the governor's and my environmental philosophies are similar, and I do not expect any major disagreements.

Q. What do you see as the most pressing issue currently before the EPA?
A. The whole energy thing is terribly important because we do have a fantastic energy resource in the state [coal], which will be developed and which should be developed. I think that we should put together a program which will allow for the development of that resource without environmental problems.

Q. In coal development, what type of emerging environmental problems do you see that you can affect?
A. Here we're talking mainly about air quality. The two major issues we're looking at are air quality and water quality, which can be affected by the acid runoff situations. The whole question of land reclamation is a terribly important one because of the agricultural concerns.

Q. Is there any area of federal preemption, as in nuclear regulation,

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which may hinder you? Would you like to see more states' rights with regard to combatting environmental problems?
A. We don't do anything with nuclear regulation in this agency. Yes, it's always good to have control over your own destiny, but the problem is that the control costs money.

Q. The EPA and the Attorney General's Office have been enmeshed in an ongoing jurisdictional dispute over preparation and presentation of cases before the PCB. Do you see this conflict as having ended?
A. That dispute is ended. I just had a meeting with the attorney general's people this afternoon, and the attorney general will represent the agency in matters of variance, enforcement procedures and permit denial proceedings. I think a workable relationship has been established.

Q. In the Division of Water Resources post, you appeared generally successful in your budget dealings and other interaction with the General Assembly. But now in your more volatile job, do you expect legislative potshots?
A. The big difference between this agency and water resources was that there we did things for people like build reservoirs and flood control projects. Essentially, Water Resources functions as a public works type of agency. Here, a much tougher agency. You're basically telling people, for example, "We're sorry, but you're going to have to spend $12 million to clean up this problem." That's not going to make very many people happy.

Q. Do you think that effective environmental protection is possible in a highly industrial and mechanized farming state like Illinois?
A. Yes, and I think it has to be. Illinois is often used as an illustration of a cross section of the United States with our major industry and highly developed agriculture. If we can't pull it off here, then I think the whole country has a lot of problems because I think we offer some examples of all the major pollution problems in the country today. ..

Q. Do you think that air and water pollution can be reversed, or that the best we can do is stem the tide of pollution?
A. I think it really depends on how much we are willing to pay. From a technical point, pollution can be reversed. But the question is "How much will society pay?"

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